Here we are 3652 days later. I’ve known this day was coming for five years, and it still feels a bit surreal if I’m being honest. After the 5th anniversary show, I had numbered our internal tracking document all the way to year ten and show 500. The title simply said “The End?” It was an initial placeholder to check my feelings and my Why behind the show.
As the years marched on, I began to feel like we were moving towards this day, and in the last two years, it became a real focus point to hold off burnout and complacency. At the same time, the Passing the Baton Leadership podcast has been a part of almost 25% of my life. I can count on my hands how many things in my life have been that consistent in my personal journey. That being said, all things must come to an end, and today marks the end of our weekly time together.
Today, we’ll spend our time looking at those people and places that come and go in your life journey. We’ll examine how to internalize those moments and opportunities to make yourself better, and the legacy that you leave behind through your intentions.
The Flame is Gone
James McClanahan was a guy that I met on my first day of intake at Ft Jackson Army Base. We were both 20 at the time – he was finishing up school to help lead a Unit Ministry Team in the Army Reserves. We were attending the same school, and not only were we assigned the same class, but we were also assigned as battle buddies, which means we’d be at each other’s hip for the next 10 weeks. As luck would have it, we were a perfect match. I enjoyed every minute with him. We worked out together, studied, and were the charismatic comedy duo for our classmates. In our 1680 hours together, I was away from him for about 20 hours total.
At the end of school, most people had family picking them up, or the military would take them to the airport. James asked if I could take him, and of course, it was a joy to do so. We arrived at the airport, and I got out to help him with his bags, give him a hug, and say goodbye.
I’ve never seen him or spoken to him since.
My thoughts and feelings on relationships changed dramatically during those 10 weeks. I realized, despite how important a person can be and how much they mean and invest in you, that they will always fade away. Sometimes you know – James and I had a very clear point in time when we would part ways. Sometimes it hits you as a surprise – I’ve talked about the sudden passing of my dad (Show 483) as well as a formidable mentor of mine, Paul Herman, over the years on the show.
In our illustration for today, I think of these people as a flame. They burn bright in your life, often providing light and warmth to you, but they can also hurt you and leave lasting scars. We recently had a question that was sent in to the show that basically asked, “Why should I invest in my co-workers, when at the end of the day, they will move on and I will never see them again? It feels fake and superficial, because if it were real, we’d keep in contact afterwards.”
Understanding how relationships are finite helped me put things in a healthy perspective to squeeze every last bit of value out of our time together.
Internalize and come to grips with the finite – This was the biggest growth point for me. When you make peace with the finite, it makes the end much easier to process. It also enhances the value along the way as well, because you aren’t hesitant or apprehensive in investing time, resources, and vulnerable moments with the other person.
Invest in your community – The flame not only represents people; it also includes places and communities. Leave all regrets behind and do your best to fully involve yourself in your community that you are a part of. Go to the seasonal festivals. Dine at the local restaurants, and become involved in civic and volunteer organizations. People are important, but so is the community that you live in.
Leave nothing for tomorrow – Think about those times when you knew a flame was going out – perhaps it was a close co-worker moving on to another role, your best friend graduating from school, and relocating to another area, or a person in your extracurricular circle who was calling it quits. Did you do anything different towards the end? Make an effort to be intentional in all your interactions. “Should of, Would of, and Could of,” are the enemies here. Assess what you should be, would be, and could be doing with others and begin acting on them. Start with those you see the most and then move on from there.
Be thankful and show appreciation – As our friend Lee Cockerell says, “Always show Appreciation, Recognition and Encouragement to others.” (Show 200) It works well to show appreciation at the opening and closing of conversations to set a nice tone. Your appreciation doesn’t have to be long or over the top; just taking the moment to recognize someone goes a long way.
Just because a relationship is finite doesn’t mean that you shouldn’t invest in it. I believe that it’s quite the opposite. You should be investing more because you don’t know how long you have it for. I had no regrets about my time with James. He was an incredible friend and like a brother to me during our time. I moved away from Paul to open a new business and was at peace with knowing that I wouldn’t see him every day anymore. We would see each other on occasion for the next few years following, and it always felt like bonus time – special, but not the same as before.
The Fire Remains
Thinking about people and places as flames that go out can be a bit depressing if the story ended there. Thankfully, the people and places that you interact with leave a lasting impression on you. They may be gone, but their impact lives on in you – that is the Fire that Remains.
Think about those previously in your life and how they may have influenced you. For me, a few examples include:
My expressive reading style comes directly from James. We started doing it as a way to break up reading assignments in class to make them less boring and dull. Today, this is a key communication skill that I use nearly daily.
My attention to detail comes in large part from Paul. My mentor taught me that minor things matter (Show 461). It really helped me dial in a skill that served me very well in life and in business.
My love of art came from my Fine Arts teacher in high school.
My love for camping came from my dad and the scouting movement.
My passion for music comes from my family, friends, and later my college professors.
We’ve talked about legacy quite a bit over the years. It all drives us to some degree in what we do. This is how someone or someplace’s legacy lives on. It lives within you and shines when you go and make an impact on the world. If you have an opportunity, I would encourage you to reach out to one or two of those people over the next couple of weeks to let them know their impact on you. That affirmation and reminder may be just what the other person needs right now.
You are currently someone’s flame
At this point, we’ve looked at people and places’ impact on you. But the concept isn’t a one-way illustration – you are also currently the flame for someone else and a flame for your community.
How bright? How Hot? How bright you shine all depends on your intentionality. I had a mismatched flame while I lived in Tyler, Texas. I moved there to learn under Paul, but I didn’t get involved in the community like I should have. 10 months later, we were moving to another state. While my flame was bright in my personal relationships there, I was not intentional with the community. It was a spark at best. What do you want to show up more for? How do you want people to remember you? Even if you’ve been in a community or with a group of people for a long time, it’s never too late to bring more intention to your actions.
Reverse the Flame tips. The four tips above for your flame comes with the understanding of maximizing your takeaways and value from the other person and community. Now reflect on those tips from the perspective of pouring back into others. How you handle those tips from a receiver and a giver perspective may be a bit different.
No doubt, there is someone in your life relying on you for your influence right now. It may be a co-worker going through a hard time or learning a new role, someone in your personal life you are helping shape their identity, or someone in the community who is better off because of your intentions. Burn as bright and hot as you can while the circumstances are where they are.
What will you do with your dash?
A year after writing “The End?” as the placeholder for the show, I changed the name of the show to “The Dash” and, for four years, had planned to write an entirely different show focused on your personal legacy. It wasn’t until a couple of weeks ago that I made a last-minute pivot to focus on personal relationships and the concept of The Flame is Gone, the Fire Remains.
The dash is a callout to a tombstone. It shows your birthday and the day of your death, with only a dash separating the two. Your whole life story sits on that one character. While you can’t control either one of the dates, you do have full control of your dash.
No matter your lifestage, I encourage you to keep the legacy that you want to leave as a top-of-mind priority that drives how you show up in work and in life in general. Your community will be a better place because of you. Your business will be stronger because of your impact, and those that you care about will be better people because of you.
My greatest hope for this show and our time together is that even though the fire is going out on our weekly show, the flame of what we’ve done together over the last 10 years lives on in you. It’s the premise of the show since the beginning – today, we pass the baton on to you, our fellow baton-carrier, for you to pass on to others.
Make a better tomorrow. -ZH
**** Thank you for 10 years! I have been so honored to be a part of the journey with you, whether you’ve been with us from the start or just joined us recently as a reader and/or listener. You’ll still be able to find all of our show’s written content at Passingthebatonpodcast.com and a curated list at zackhudson.com. Neha and I have already been in talks on what the future of PTB looks like, and while we aren’t ready to share details yet, we do know a couple of things. – I’m taking a writing sabbatical after 10 years without a break, and we are excited to see what a new format could look like in the future.
Forgiveness is one of the best gifts you can give yourself and someone else. Neither you nor I are perfect. Your company will fail you. Your team will fail you. Those who are close to you outside of work will fail you. You are also going to fail all three of those groups as well.
Forgiveness is not about forgetting or excusing harmful behavior; it’s about releasing yourself and others from the grip of resentment. Holding onto bitterness erodes connection, trust, and peace. In leadership and life, forgiveness is an intentional act of strength that creates space for healing, growth, and restored relationships.
Forgiveness is hard work, especially when trust has been broken or the pain is fresh. You’re not weak for struggling with it; it just shows that you are human. When you choose to move toward forgiveness, even slowly, you open the door to healing and real peace.
Acknowledge the hurt
Forgiveness doesn’t start with pretending everything is okay—it starts with telling yourself the truth about what happened. The hurt, betrayal, or disappointment you experienced is valid. Naming and acknowledging those feelings doesn’t make you bitter; it makes you honest with yourself and the situation.
Before we can begin to forgive someone, we need to face the impact of what happened without guilt for having feelings. Many of us were taught to suppress pain or were told things like, “Just let it go,” or “Don’t make a big deal out of it.” But unspoken pain doesn’t disappear…. it just festers.
When you avoid naming the hurt, you also delay the healing. Forgiveness becomes hollow; something you say you’ve done, but deep down still feel stuck in. Real acknowledgment means sitting with what happened and letting yourself feel and understand. Some self-reflection questions that can help are:
What exactly hurt you? Was it betrayal, neglect, disrespect, or something else?
What did it cost you? Trust, time, confidence, relationship equity, peace?
What are you still carrying from that experience? What impact has this had on your thought process, mental space, or even physical behaviors?
The point here isn’t to wallow in self-pity, it’s to tell yourself the truth because you can’t release the burden and weight until you recognize it.
Separate the person from the behavior
This step is difficult, especially when someone’s actions feel personal or deeply damaging. But here’s a truth that’s helped many leaders I’ve worked with: People are not the sum of their mistakes (and neither are you). Even the people who hurt us are often hurting themselves, or acting from broken places we can’t see.
Forgiveness becomes possible when we stop defining someone entirely by what they did. That doesn’t mean what they did is okay. It means we’re choosing to see their humanity instead of only their failure.
A self-reflection question you may ask yourself is, “What story or history might explain why they acted this way?” The point of the question is not that you look for a reason to rationalize or excuse the behavior, but sometimes understanding can soften the resentment just enough to allow some grace for the other person.
Keep short accounts
I had a whole slew of issues with my father as an adult – betrayal, broken trust, fabrication of the truth, and lack of communication led to us not talking for a number of years. He missed the birth of both my children, and we would go for years without talking or seeing each other. At some point, I realized that forgiveness wasn’t just letting him off the hook for his actions, but holding on to those negative feelings was also holding me back. That self-revelation ultimately led to me calling my dad one day to simply say that I forgave him.
After that event, we began to talk a bit more, and when even got together a couple of times, where he got a chance to meet the kids. About a year later, he passed away very unexpectedly. Can I tell you how thankful I was that I didn’t have to carry that regret of not forgiving him and carrying a burden of guilt and anger the rest of my life?
The longer you hold onto offense, the heavier it gets. Practice the habit of checking in with yourself regularly. “What am I holding onto that I need to release?” Don’t let unspoken frustration turn into long-term disconnection. You never know what circumstances may change, where you are no longer afforded the opportunity to forgive the person.
Set boundaries without bitterness
One of the biggest misconceptions about forgiveness is that it means letting someone right back into your life the same way. But forgiveness and reconciliation are not the same thing. You can forgive someone and still decide that certain behaviors, access, or dynamics are no longer acceptable. That’s not punishment; that’s protection and what’s best for you. In the example with my father, I had internally forgiven him and then went on a new journey. “Now what do I do?” was a consistent thought that I pondered on during that time. Should I reach out? Should I just leave things the way that they are and rest in the fact that I no longer carry the weight of resentment like I had for years? Do we just act like nothing ever happened?
I ultimately settled on that while I would reach out, I wasn’t quite ready to jump right back into things. We talked for a few months before we actually met. We got together for lunch as my family was getting ready to move about 10 hours away from his home, and that would end up being the last time that I would see him alive. After our get-together, we agreed to talk about once a month on the phone. It felt good to talk and share about life again,
Setting boundaries can actually be a sign that you’re healing. You’re no longer driven by revenge or fear, but by wisdom and peace. In my case, the physical distance put a natural barrier there between us. That may not be your circumstance, but remember that it is ok to think through and pre-establish what those barriers may look like, from time, distance, types of interactions, and other areas.
Forgiveness isn’t weakness, it’s actually strength with direction. It’s leadership of your own heart. It’s choosing freedom over bitterness, not because the other person deserves it, but because you do.
If you’re struggling to forgive, take heart: You’re not out of place. You’re in process. Keep going, and you’ll find that the baton you’re passing, whether to your team, your family, or your future self, is lighter and stronger than before.
If the challenges of reassuring your self-worth and fighting back against imposter syndrome (Show 224) weren’t enough in your leadership journey, you will likely encounter a time when you also compare yourself to other leaders. That can come from your organization fostering a culture of hyper-competitiveness to your own inner voice putting you on a Value scale against your peer.
I certainly compared myself to a lot of my peers early on in my career. I used it as a barometer of what my success level was. “How am I doing against them?” “How are they outpacing me?” “Where can I shine more?”
Now don’t get me wrong, learning from others is a great thing. Competition can be a good thing too. A positive motive behind leadership comparison can lead us to unhealthy places if not kept in proper check.
Unique contexts and challenges
One fundamental reason to steer clear of leadership comparisons is the unique situations and challenges that leaders face. Each organizational setting is unique, shaped by its own culture, history, and external environment. Leaders must navigate a myriad of challenges that may be specific to their industry, company size, or geographical location. Drawing parallels between leaders without considering the contextual nuances can lead to oversimplified assessments and misguided conclusions about leadership effectiveness and success.
For example, when I led leaders across a very large geographical area, some thrived in a small rural market, while others at the same business level struggled in more tourist-type areas where the population was more transient. One of the large businesses in the rural area had years worth of bad culture to chip away at while a newer leader in the tourist-type area didn’t suffer from the same challenges. Now the two leaders may think that one is performing better than the other because they don’t fully see the unique struggles that the other one is going through. It’s hard to compare yourself to another in a healthy way when you don’t know what is going on behind closed doors.
Individual leadership styles
Leadership is inherently personal and reflective of your values, personality, and experiences. Each leader develops a unique style of leadership that resonates with their own strengths and preferences. When you compare yourself to other leaders you risk oversimplifying this complexity of personality traits and experiences and potentially neglect the authenticity that defines effective leadership.
Consider the contrast between a charismatic, visionary leader and a more reserved, analytical leader. Both styles can be effective in different contexts, and attempting to measure one against the other may dismiss the inherent strengths that each leader brings to the table. Authentic leadership stems from staying true to one’s unique strengths and not conforming to external comparisons.
Fostering a collaborative culture
Leadership is not a solitary endeavor, or at least shouldn’t be, and instead should be a collaborative process that involves the team that you are serving. Comparisons between leaders can inadvertently create an ultra-competitive atmosphere, where team members may feel pressured to conform to a particular leadership archetype. This can harm creativity, collaboration, and the diversity of thought that are essential for organizational success. I’ve seen this play out on a large scale when competitiveness went too far and it harmed the culture for both large teams as a result as they too became ultra-competitive and an “us vs. them” mindset set in on both teams.
By steering away from comparisons, you can cultivate a culture that celebrates individual strengths and encourages diverse perspectives. A collaborative environment allows for collective leadership to grow, where each team member contributes their unique skills and experiences to achieve shared goals.
Comparing leadership career journeys
In addition to the people leader aspect of leadership comparison, it can be tempting to compare the personal journey too. It especially be a challenge for high performers, to compare where they are in their career trajectory to other high performers. “Why am I not moving up as fast?” “I’ve been here longer than them and they are already moving to a new role.”
Remember that there is a difference in Success vs Excellence (Show 150) as well as Aspiration vs. Ambition (Show 250). even though it may feel similar, you may actually be in totally different parts of the career rock wall.
Avoiding comparisons is an ingredient for creating authentic, effective, and adaptive leadership. Leaders who navigate the complex path of leadership without falling for the allure of comparisons are better equipped to inspire and guide their teams toward success in an ever-changing world.
Passive aggressive phrases are easy to roll off the tongue or the keyboard, but they often send mixed messages that others do not appreciate. When communication isn’t straightforward, tensions, misinterpretations, and or problems can find themselves creeping into the relationship. Some phrases that you throw into existence can even make your friends, family, co-workers, and leaders respect you less.
“If that’s what you want to do…”
This is a passive-aggressive statement that says, “I know better, but if you want to fail go right ahead.” It’s certainly not an encouraging or supportive statement. It can instill doubt in the other person and erode the relationship regardless of whether you are ultimately right or wrong.
The phrase is also a great way to stop any forward momentum or progress and immediately derail a conversation. Other similar phrases include, ” Just so you know….” and “For future reference….”
Try this: If you disagree with a direction or perspective, then just speak up and say so. People usually don’t try to go out of their way to make a decision that upsets you unless there is already a deeper issue involved. Lead the conversation with positive intent and ask yourself if they have all the resources, information, and support to make the best decision.
“Just a friendly reminder…”
Ahh the classic passive-aggressive attempt to get others to respond or take action. This phrase is an interesting one because how it is received is highly dependent on your level of relationship with the other person. If you have a solid working relationship with the receiver of the message, they may take it as a helpful reminder to do what is asked. For people that you don’t have a relationship with or are not in solid standing with, they will likely get annoyed and take your positive intent as being passive-aggressive.
A more aggressive version of this statement would be, “Per my last email,” “As previously stated,” and “As I mentioned before.” Regardless of the version, this type of statement can make you come across as bossy or nagging.
Try this: Being direct is the best way here as well. Saying something along the lines, “I wanted to follow up on this item since it’s due tomorrow.”
“Don’t take this the wrong way, but…”
When you say this phrase, you are communicating, “Hey I’ve got something to say that is likely going to offend you, but I’m going to share it anyway.” You are basically trying to cover your bases and excuse yourself for your own poor behavior that you are about to deal the other person. Flat out rude or at a minimum you aren’t thinking and framing the feedback up in the right way.
Feedback is good and it can be a gift to others. We all want to improve and be better after all. This is another great example of how the “What” and the “How” are perfectly balanced. In this case, the “What” is the actual feedback that you need to deliver and the “How” is the delivery method to successfully give the feedback to the other person.
Try this: Try opening up with curiosity and checking for timing. “Is now a good time for us to talk?” or “Is there a convenient time today that we cover feedback from the meeting?” I like the second example even more because it gives the persona a chance to mentally prepare for the conversation.
“Fine”, “Whatever” or “Got it”
These responses are a minefield for trouble. Both “got it,” and “fine” are so highly dependent on the tone and context of the conversation that they can be interpreted in many different ways. Sometimes that can be received as an acknowledgment and other times as “I’m done with this conversation. Go away.”
All three can be interpreted one way: dismissive. These are often said to the other person to let them know that you are upset, but they likely don’t know why that is. The receiver of the message is then forced to make a choice – Ignore you and keep the conversation going, drop the topic, or lean into the response and derail the conversation further.
Try this: Start the response by communicating why you are feeling the way that you are. “I’m a bit overwhelmed because I’ve got a couple of big deadlines today.” “I’m sorry that I’m feeling annoyed. This is an issue that I thought had been resolved.”
Passive-aggressive phrases have a way of weaving a web of misunderstanding that leads to more issues. Recognizing these phrases before they occur and then choosing to respond with tact and empathy is crucial for maintaining healthy relationships. As you address the underlying issues, you are showing some strong emotional intelligence and building a culture of open communication and mutual understanding.
“I think that they are too positive.” That was the start of a coaching session a leader once had with me when we were discussing one of their employees. It can be a weird and confusing feeling to realize that you are interacting with someone with toxic positivity. On the one hand, we emphasize the importance of having a positive outlook as things get tough, but on the other, a relentless pursuit of positivity can have adverse effects on mental health and relationships with others. Addressing toxic positivity can be a challenge. Here are some tips as you work through the approach and acknowledge someone’s emotions.
What is toxic positivity?
Toxic positivity is when a person puts up blinders and/or ignores all negative thoughts or feelings. They will often pretend that everything is fine when it is not.
It’s not always like the meme of the dog saying “This is fine” while he happily sits at a table while the house is on fire around him. Toxic positivity can show itself as offering a simple solution to a complicated problem. As a leader, it can show itself by not allowing others to share critical or negative opinions when it’s appropriate.
Help elevate their emotional intelligence
The person may not even realize that they have this challenge and blinders. Help them grow their self-awareness by assisting them in recognizing and acknowledging their own feeling and emotions. It’s also important to help them see and understand that it’s normal and safe for them to experience a range of emotions as an employee and as a leader.
As you lead the person, show them empathy and how they can model that trait as they interact with others. Help the person mature past statements like, “It could be worse”, “You should be thankful for what you do have,” and “Just think positive.” Instead help them offer support, activate those active listening skills, and lean into empathy. For more resources check out our show Empathy, sympathy, and pity. (Show 261)
Create a safe space to be authentic
Being authentic can be harder than it seems, especially for a new leader or a new employee. The person wants to put the best version of themselves out there and typically has a high desire to be accepted by everyone. Addressing toxic positivity involves creating a space where individuals feel comfortable expressing their authentic emotions without judgment. As a leader, you need to build trust with the person and the larger team to begin building that kind of environment for people to share their true feelings and emotions. You also need to live it out yourself and express your own emotions and vulnerabilities with others as well. Lean into genuine conversations, so that you can break down the facade of forced positivity and encourage a more authentic understanding of each other’s experiences.
It’s a journey
Addressing toxic positivity can be complex, it’s a more complicated growth path than telling someone that they need to fix a superficial issue, like attendance, dress code, etc. Specifically, acknowledge and encourage the person as they open up more and communicate a larger range of emotions with others. Reinforce that feeling of safety for them and continue to offer guidance when you see it still manifesting itself.
Toxic positivity is certainly more nuanced than other behavioral issues that you will face as a leader. Care for your person by showing them that it’s ok to be authentic with themselves and others.
